Is Abortion Always Immoral??

In this paper I plan on discussing the topic of whether abortion is always immoral. I will be looking at two essays writing by philosophers that are on different extremes of the topic. In the first essay, John T. Noonan, believes that abortion is always immoral, and he uses a statistical approach and uses three distinctions; viability, experience, and appeal. In the second essay, Jane English, believes that abortion is not always immoral. English bases her arguments on many more distinctions, as well as a self-defense argument. I believe that abortion is not always immoral, and will use English’s arguments to support my claims.

John T. Noonan begins his arguments, as does Jane English, by trying to determine what is a human. He uses three criteria to determine what a human is. He then uses statistical arguments to back up his points that it would only be justified to accept that it is always immoral to have an abortion.

The first criteria for what classifies a human that Noonan uses is the fact of if the fetus is viable. Noonan states, the fetus is not viable, that is, it cannot be removed from the mother’s womb and live apart from her. He then goes to reject this claim that viability is a usable measure because as he says, there is considerable elasticity to the idea of viability. He goes on to reject this claim because if viability were the standard way to measure the humanness of a living being, then the standard would vary from race and individual circumstances. Noonan’s last argument to this claim that viability is a standard measure is that the fetus is still absolutely dependent on someone’s care in order to continue existence. As an example he uses a three year old and a five year old, both are still dependent for continued existence, if left uncared for, they would surely die, just as the early fetus would if detached from the mother.

Noonan’s second claim which he will go on to reject is the distinction of experience. That is, a being who has had experience, has lived and suffered, who possesses memories, is more human then one who has not. Noonan rejects this claim by saying that the embryo is responsive after at least 8 weeks, and the zygote is changing and responding to it’s environment inside the mother. He also points out that in the cases of aphasia, where adult memory has been lost, Noonan asks the question; has it erased humanity? Clearly the answer here is No. Thus, the claim that experience is a criteria for humanity is null. Noonan also asks us what about people who have failed to love or to learn, if experience is to be considered a criteria for humanity then these people would be excluded as loving and learning are a central experience.

A third distinction which Noonan points out is that of appeal to the sentiments of adults. Noonan says that humans tend to morn the loss of a ten-year old then we would his one-year old bother, or his 90 year old grandmother. He claims that this is because of the potentialities extinguished, or the experience wiped out.

Noonan’s fourth criteria is that of social visibility, meaning that since the fetus cannot communicate with humanity it is not a member of society. However, Noonan rejects this claim because in Communist China landlords have been classified as enemies of the people and thus treated as non-humans. Noonan states that any attempt to limit humanity to exclude some group runs the risk of furnishing authority and precedent for excluding other groups in the name of consciousness of perception of the controlling group in society. Meaning that any attempt to exclude the fetus from society to make abortion moral, will thus exclude some other group from humanity, making the killing of that group moral as well.

Noonan’s main argument for his idea that abortion is always immoral is based on a statistical basis. He states that once the spermatozoon and ovum meet there is a 4 out of 5 will come to term, and thus become human. He uses the argument that if the chance that 200,000,000 to 1 that the movement in the buses into which you shoot is a man’s, I doubt that if many persons would hold you careless in shooting; but if the chances are 4 out of 5 that the movement is a human beings’, few would acquit you of blame. Here he’s saying that, if you were to shoot into a bush in which the chances are 4 out of 5 that it’s a human movement, you would be held accountable for the death of that person, thus you should be held accountable for the death of a fetus which had a 4 out of 5 chance of growing and developing into that human.

One argument against this is that there are 200,000,000 spermatozoon and 100,000 to 1,000,000 oocytes in a female, of which no more then 390 are going to be ovulated. So thus, every time you waste a spermatozoon of oocytes you are therefore performing an abortion and killing a human. Noonan’s argument against this is the fact that there is a small statistical chance of any of those spermatozoon or oocytes becoming a zygote and that once they do actually become zygotes there is a sharp shift in probabilities, an immense jump in potentialities. He uses the shooting into a bush argument here to counter these claims. If you were to shoot into a bush in which there was a 200,000,000 to 1 chance of the movement being a humans then you wouldn’t be held accountable if it was that minority chance. Noonan concludes Do not injure your fellow man without reason. In these terms, once the humanity of the fetus is perceived, abortion is never right except in self-defense. When life must be taken to save life, reason alone cannot say that a mother must prefer a child’s life to her own. With this exception, now of great rarity, abortion violated the rational humanist tenet of equality of human lives. Thus he is saying that with the one rare exception of when a mothers life is in danger, abortion is always immoral because you are taking a life without reason.

Jane English takes on the same type of arguments, that there are criteria for determining if a fetus is a person, she also stats that some abortions are permissible in self-defense. English states that there are many criteria which can be used to determine if a person is a person or not. She lists, many which include: biological features, psychological factors, rationality factors, social factors, legal factors and many more. She goes on to say that even though these are used to determine the humanity of a person, they are not strict and rigid guidelines. She uses the example that if someone were irrational, and rationality were one of the strict guidelines then that person would fail to qualify as a person. She also states that on the other hand, something could exhibit a majority of these of these features and still fail to be a person, as as advanced robot might. English rejects that the criteria for determining a human because they are only features that are more or less typical and not required and that a conclusive answer to the question whether a fetus is a person is unattainable. English goes on to state that the debate as to what is human and what is not human does not assist us in the determination as to whether abortion is right or wrong.

Englishes main claims is that of self-defense, and that abortion is right in terms of self-defense. She argues that not only physical self-defense if alright, but that innocent threats to the mother’s well-being, life prospects, or mental health would justify an abortion. English uses the example of a doctor and mad scientist, in which the doctor is forced to forget all his knowledge of doctoring, therefore destroying his career. In this situation English says this it is morally permissible to use force and even death to get out of this conflict so that you can continue with your life prospects. She uses this example to justify the abortion from a woman who, where having the child would ruin the womans life prospects. She gives the explicit example of a teenage pregnancy. English concludes that abortion is justifiable early in pregnancy to avoid modest harms and seldom justifiable late in pregnancy except to avoid significant injury or death.

I believe that Jane English is more correct on this issue on whether abortion is immoral. I feel that with her arguments on if the fetus will eventually come to harm the woman either physically, mentally, or by harming her well-being are all acceptable reasons to have an abortion. John Noonan’s statistical view of the world is not one that will convince many people as to the rightness or wrongness of abortion. At least both these authors conclude that a strict definition of when a person becomes a being with moral rights.

In conclusion the two arguments that you have just seen are on extreme ends of the views. John T. Noonan states that abortion is always immoral and Jane English states that abortion is moral as long as it in what she calls Self-defense.

Welcome… And Busy!

(Go read the TWO posts also from today below!!!!)

“life, n.: A whim of several billion cells to be you for a while.”

Wow, so as you can tell I’ve been VERY busy today!

First, I would like to welcome everyone to the new and improved CjBOnline.org. Hopefully everything is working for you right now, however there may be a few problems here and there and I ask that you use the contact me link to the left to contact me and tell me about any problems. Or you can leave a comment. I do know that the poems and short story pages are not working and I am working on getting that to work properly. There seems to be an inclusion problem with those. I dunno what it is.

Secondly, I’ve been VERY busy with my PHIL paper today. I got to work about 7:30 and worked on it from then (with a few interuptions) tell the time I left to go my class. Went there, and did class stuff. He covered my topic second, so that was before the break. So I left after that. Also found out that he’s dropping the lowest quiz grade, and he didn’t have one today, so that’s good. I also figured out that I can get 3 of the 30 points on my paper and still pass the class with a C. However, if I continue getting the averages that I have been getting on other things, I’ll end up with a B in the class. The highest I can get (That is if I get a 30 our of 30 on the paper) would be a B+ (With an 86%, the cut off). So I’m sitting good it looks like!

Last night was GREAT. I left class early and met up with Andrew about 2ish, we hung out and played with his computer some. That was tons of fun. Although his mom REALLY annoys me. We were sitting on his bed, hugging. And she walks by and goes “Stop it.” It’s like, HELLO, he’s 18 years old, I think he can sit on his bed with his BF if he damn well pleases! She’s so wierd. And then we talked about how crazy she is. I guess she wants him to fly out to Cali to register. I’m like, ok… She’s bitching because she can’t afford the $500 for your computer, and she’s bitching because she can’t afford your college, but she wants you to FLY out there, that’s $300 for a ticket there and back, plus the hotel for two days min (Another $200 or so), and then plus food, etc. For something that you can easily do over the phone in an hour or so! What afucking crazy!

I do guess though one thing nice is that she told Andrew how she thinks that I treat him better then his other bf’s. So that was a nice thing to say I guess. Although she doesn’t really seem to show any niceness towards me. Whatever.

Also talked about my crazy scheme and I guess it’s been pre-oked. Just have to wait now for the time for it to happen, and then make sure it’s oked oked. We’ll see how that goes. And if I have the money for it. lol.

After all that we went out to meet up with Dustin and Michael to eat supper. WE got there early so we walked around the Wells Fargo Pond thing which was tons of fun! After that we were hot, so we went to Walgreens and hung out for a while. From there to Biaggi’s. The food was SUPER GREAT! I had Rigatoni alla Toscana and it was SOOOO good. I was a bit nervous about the roasted peppers, but I ate them and they were VERY VERY good. I can’t tell you how good the food was. I just wished that I could have ate more. But I was so full from the bread that we ate!

After that we went to a movie, and it was an alright movie, although not the best one ever. I don’t even remember the name of it now. There were some North Polkianites there. Crazyness. Andrew seemed a little annoyed for parts of the movie, but I don’t know why.

From the movie we were going to go get IceCream, but I had to get back to Ames, so we just broke. Andrew drove back to his house and we stood outside talking and kissing for 30 minutes. I finall left and got gas and then drove back to Ames.

As I was getting off the interstate there’s two lanes, one to go left, one to go right… Well I was in the lane to go right, and there was this other car in the one to go left. So I turn right, and this other car just suddenly turns and goes the same way that I’m going. I didn’t really think anything of it cause, you know, maybe he realized that he was going the wrong way. So I start driving, and I’m weaving in and out of traffic, because eveyrone’s driving UBER slow, and I was in a hurry to get home. And this car that turned was just staying RIGHT on my ass! I by now I was like, what the hell. So I get to my street and by now I’m in the left lane, but this other car was in the right lane. So I get into the left turning lane, and turn and this other car darts across the lanes and turns down my road. So I’m all like, “What’d I do to this guy??” So I’m drving and I turn into my apartments. He doesn’t turn so I’m like, alright, he must have just missed two of his turns or something, so I get my stuff and start walking into my apartment area. And this car pulls up next to me, and it’s the guy that had been following me…He’s like, “Hey, do you know La Boheme is?” And I’m like, “Nope. but I’ve heard of it.” And then he talks some more and tells me that he’s here from MN to meet somebody that he knows online, and he’s supposed to meet them there for a drag show. And then he’s like, “Yeah, I saw your sticker and followed you home.” What a crazy!

This weekend is going to be TONS of fun, and you can expect a VERY LONG update about it all Sunday/Monday. I’d bet more towards Monday, because I have a feeling that we’ll be getting back into town late Sunday night. I have a lot of things to do on Saturday morning as well before we leave. So I have to get all those done. And I guess the G&G have physical labor for me to do once we get there. I dunno what it is, but I bet it won’t be anything too bad. But I know that’s why I offered to go there, so we’ll see. My Grandpa hasn’t been doing well lately apparently, so I hope that he doesn’t mow the yard before I get there, cause I want to do that for him.

Anyways, I also thourghly suggest that everyone go read the book “Humanity” by Johnathan Glover. Very good book…

And I leave you with a quote…

“So long as the past and the present are outside one another, knowledge of the past is not of much use in the present. But suppose the past lives on in the present; suppose, though encapsulted in it, and at first sight hidden beneath the present’s contraditory and more prominent features, it is still alive and active; then the historian may very well be related to the non-historian as the trained woodsman is to the ignorant traveller.”

“The First World War was alive at Hiroshima.”

Phelps’ sheep have been led astray

When I found out that Pastor Fred Phelps’ minions from Westboro Baptist Church were coming to Des Moines again to protest the bestowing of the Matthew Shepard scholarship on a Des Moines high school graduate, I felt that I should go and actually meet these people who have dedicated their lives to spewing monstrous amounts of propaganda on street corners throughout America.

However, it was very hard for me to do this. The way Phelps and his flock have so obviously misappropriated what the Bible says and attempted to twist God’s true nature into something hateful has never sat well with me.

But I went. At 6:30 a.m., while rain drizzled down from a cold, gray sky, I stood watching six of Phelps’ followers hold up brightly colored signs that proclaimed “God hates fags,” and “It’s the fags, stupid.” The truth was, I was afraid of them; I had no idea what to expect. I had always expected those who advocate the death of entire groups of people based on their so-called “shortcomings” to look evil, or at least a little bit like Hitler.

The problem was they didn’t look evil at all. They looked like me.

Three girls of approximately my age were standing in front of me — college girls that should have been back at school in Kansas hanging out with their friends or studying, not far from their home and rabid with hate. It made me want to cry.

It took me some time, but I worked up the nerve to try and talk with them. At first, the girls were reluctant to speak, but as I was quite nervous myself and they saw I was not going to attack them, they started to talk.

“It’s not a very long drive,” one of the girls told me. “Only four and a half hours.” I thought that was pretty far to come for a few half-hour protests, but it wasn’t my parade.

“No, we don’t get paid to do this. We spend our own money to come and protest,” she said. That fact completely dumbfounded me, because, as I came to find out later, some of the members of the Westboro congregation go out to multiple protest sites a month, all over the country. Phelps must be a rich man — he has convinced other people to do his dirty work on their own time and pay for it out of their own pocketbooks.

“There is no better thing to devote our time to because the homosexuals have put their agenda into the forefront of society. They are flaunting their sin. You don’t see divorce parades or adultery parades,” another girl said. Every time you turn on the television or watch a movie these days, it’s a veritable barrage of sex outside of marriage, divorce and adultery. Watch some Maury Povich or Ricki Lake. If that’s not a parade, I don’t know what is.

I was astounded at the comparative youthfulness of the crowd : there was a high school student and a woman with her 14-year-old son there as well. For a mother to bring her son with her to enforce a message of hate and possibly even put him in harm’s way is absolutely crazy.

There is something wrong with the reasoning of religious leaders like Phelps when they believe they can and should convince anyone, not to mention the young people I saw that day, to devote their lives to preaching a “gospel” they have twisted to their own uses.

An overarching theme that arises from the Bible is love the sinner, but hate the sin. According to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, therefore it can be treated accordingly under the confines of Christianity. But condemning sin and condemning the people who commit sin are two completely different things, and it seems Phelps and his crew have yet to learn that lesson.

Contrary to what Phelps would like us to believe, God does not hate homosexuals. God doesn’t hate anyone. God loves every person ever created; we are all God’s children.

Christians are urged as well never to hate their fellow man.

The Bible (1 John 4:20-21), says “If anyone says, ‘I love God,’ yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And He has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.”

On yet another sign I saw, they use the Bible to advocate the “death penalty for fags.” However, God is our only judge. The Bible (Matthew 7:1-2) explicitly says, “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the same measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

Leviticus 20:13 may say that men who lie with other men should be put to death, but the Bible also says that women have no place in the church. I guess some Biblical customs die hard.

There are many more issues to address, but most of all I care about these people that Phelps has sucked in. All the people I talked to could spout the same ideas, facts and Bible verses, but not one could seem to see the inherent fallacies of their cult-like mantra.

These people deserve our compassion, not our scorn


That was written by Alicia Ebaugh from the ISU Daily, here’s the reply by the Phelps clan….


Alicia Ebaugh’s column about our wonderful picket of the fag parade (a pitiful turn out by the fags, I must note) is a stark illustration of the results of systematically lying to an entire generation about eternity.

This young lady believes life is about her views, her feelings and what she wants. In fact, it’s about God and what He wants, and the duty of all mankind to study the scriptures and to fear God and keep his commandments. That idea is just “crazy” to young Alicia, let alone the thought someone would expend their own resources (time, energy and money) publishing this message.

You have a definition problem. It is true that we are to love our brothers. The elect of God have a benevolent love for their fellow man, which is why they warn them to flee the wrath to come.

If, as we say, and as every human is created to intuitively understand, there is a God, there is a real place called hell, and eternity is forever, where do you find anything loving when false prophets and other responsible adults teach children things that will land them in hell?

Where is the love in encouraging a lifestyle that by all reports is extraordinarily harmful to the body, mind, heart and soul — and will cost you eternal punishment?

That’s not love Alicia; that’s hate. And it’s the most selfish kind of hate, because people promote these lies so they can feel OK about their own sin.

I would venture a guess that we are the first people you’ve ever met who truly love you.

If you are going to present yourself as a Bible scholar, you should tell the truth about the Bible. The scriptures don’t say “women have no place in the church.” Rather, the New Testament is plain on the requirement that women remain silent during the worship service and not pretend to be preachers. They are supposed to be present, singing the hymns, listening and learning, and fully engaged otherwise in the ministering to the saints and publishing the word of truth.

That’s God’s standard, and there are a lot of good reasons for it enunciated in these passages. You hate this standard as much as you hate the standard against anal copulation.

That’s because you hate God.

Meanwhile, you testify in your column to the good information the young people on that picket line kindly gave you.

You don’t refute the points they made: that the media is awash in promoting this filth and that God doesn’t love an unrepentant proud sinner. Instead, you fill up space with wallowing-will-worship that adds nothing to the discussion and merely further deludes your readers. All fluff; no stuff.

The good news is that this qualifies you to be a card-carrying member of the American media!

A final word about judgment. If you truly believed you shouldn’t judge, you would have never written your editorial. Because it’s nothing but a loosely-knit, weakly-reasoned judgment against us.

If you carefully consider the very words you quoted, you will see that it says if you set up a standard by which you judge, you will be held to that standard.

Alicia, you set up the Great Non-Judgment Standard, and measured against that standard, you failed! That makes you nothing more than another garden variety big, fat hypocrite!

Margie J. Phelps
Topeka, KS

Philadelphia Boy Scouts Kick Out Gay Teen

Philadelphia, PA: One week after its non-discrimination policy was made public, the Cradle of Liberty Council of the Boy Scouts of America has officially ousted 18-year-old Scout Gregory Lattera and apparently fired him from the summer camp job he has held for the past three years for publicly revealing his sexual orientation.

In a letter dated June 6, 2003, Scout Executive William T. Dwyer III told Lattera: “We have received information that has compelled us to revoke your registration. We therefore request that you sever any relationship you may
have with the Boy Scouts of America. A refund of your registration fee is enclosed.” The letter had given Lattera the option of appealing the actions of the local council by explaining his version of the facts of the case, but had not given any indication of what the BSA’s actions were based on, or what specifically he had to address in his request for a review.

Within hours of receiving the letter Saturday afternoon, Lattera called Dwyer to ask him for details about his expulsion. “He hung up on me as I was trying to get the rest of my questions out,” Lattera reported. “He said, ‘Well there ya go… you went and made your sexual orientation open. If you had just kept your mouth shut and been a good scout and employee you wouldn’t have this problem.’ I said ‘I have a few more questions,’ and Dywer said ‘God bless you Greg’ and hung up. That was the end of the conversation.'”

Lattera has also sent a letter to Dwyer formally asking for an explanation of the actions of the Cradle of Liberty Council. Meanwhile, Chief Scout Executive Roy Williams has sent out a memo from BSA’s National Headquarters stating that the Cradle of Liberty Council did not have the authority to override national membership policies.

“The Boy Scouts of America has once again shown us that they do not practice what they preach,” said Chris Hayes, Eagle Scout and former scout leader from Albany, NY who was kicked out in August of 2000 for being gay. Today, Hayes is the chair of the New York State Coalition for Inclusive Scouting.

“The Cradle of Liberty Council has obviously instituted the so called non-discrimination policy in order to gain favor with potential financial supporters and the American public,” Hayes continued. “As we can see in Greg Lattera’s case, they had no intention of following this policy. How can the Boy Scouts of America teach young men about being trustworthy when they themselves are not?”

Darrell Lambert of the Northwest Coalition for Inclusive Scouting, agreed: “I find it appalling that the Cradle of Liberty Council would come out with an anti-discrimination policy, luring Greg into trusting William Dwyer,
then discriminating against him the first chance they get. In my opinion, William T. Dwyer should be kicked out of Scouting for not being trustworthy.”

Two years ago, the Boston Minuteman Council of the BSA adopted a similar non-discrimination policy. One week after it was reported in the Boston Globe, that council publicly backpedaled when Mark Noel, another openly gay
Eagle Scout and former scout leader, was turned down by that council for a position as a merit badge counselor.

“We’ve seen time and again that BSA officials can’t seem to make any of these local non-discrimination policies stick,” said Noel, who is now the director of the New England Coalition for Inclusive Scouting. “They look good on paper, but as soon as someone puts them to the test to see if they can be trusted, the BSA finds some reason to expel them – saying it was a decision made at National headquarters, or that the person was ‘too open’
about his sexual orientation.”

“No one in Scouting really believes these local non-discrimination policies are for real, and no one can trust them until someone like Greg Lattera is allowed to stay,” Noel continued. “Out of 3.3 million scouts and leaders
around the country right now, we still can’t point to a single one who is openly gay.”

Copies of letters and documents from Gregory Lattera’s case are available on the Inclusive Scouting web site:

Copy of the BSA’s memo from Monday, June 9 redefining the non-discrimination policy adopted by the Cradle of Liberty Council:

Infanticide

So this morning I was watching those small claims court things on TV this morning and I’ve decided that I could be a small claims court judge. I mean, all they really do is tell people the logical thing to do and use thier common sense for people that don’t have any. Hello, any one could do that!

I have also decided that the problems with today’s history classes is that they don’t focus on recent history. And I’m talking about like a World history class or something at the HS level. Because I know that in my HS we focused on history that wasn’t very recent. But I think that for most kids recent history would be much easier to teach them and come in more handy then what they are being taught. If they want to know about ancient history more, then let them take college classes on the subects, or have an additional class that they can take. That’s just my feelings though.

I have learned more history in the last 4 weeks then I did all 4 years of HS. Whatever.

And I hope to come in tomorrow and get database changes done and then upload the new shit tomorrow. I doubt that’ll happen though!

Laters.